Comments on: The Program Problem http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/ Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:17:57 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Tom Pounder http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17081 Tom Pounder Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:44:39 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17081 Programs are important as long as they help you minister to your youth better. There needs to be a purpose behind them. I have found programs to be great opportunities for you to have shared experiences with your youth so that you can develop stronger relationships with them and spur them on to Christ. Programs are important as long as they help you minister to your youth better. There needs to be a purpose behind them. I have found programs to be great opportunities for you to have shared experiences with your youth so that you can develop stronger relationships with them and spur them on to Christ.

]]> By: The Program Problem resolved? « I’m Just a Bill http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17076 The Program Problem resolved? « I’m Just a Bill Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:55:30 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17076 [...] read with great interest Kurt Johnston’s blog post about “The Program Problem.” It mirrors a similar blog post that I wrote in defense of programs [...] [...] read with great interest Kurt Johnston’s blog post about “The Program Problem.” It mirrors a similar blog post that I wrote in defense of programs [...]

]]> By: zac http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17075 zac Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:19:14 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17075 I tend to agree with most who have pointed out it seems to just depend on what you mean by the word. This emerging culture seems to have a greater emphasis on the uniqueness of each individual than ever before. Unfortunately, the word "program" happens to start with a "P" - so it made the catchphrase "Think People Not Programs" catchy. I put that phrase in the same category as "Its not a religion, its a relationship" we love things that start with the same letter that we can distinguish between, even if we have to paint one in a more unflattering light that it deserves. I tend to agree with most who have pointed out it seems to just depend on what you mean by the word. This emerging culture seems to have a greater emphasis on the uniqueness of each individual than ever before. Unfortunately, the word “program” happens to start with a “P” – so it made the catchphrase “Think People Not Programs” catchy. I put that phrase in the same category as “Its not a religion, its a relationship” we love things that start with the same letter that we can distinguish between, even if we have to paint one in a more unflattering light that it deserves.

]]> By: Jimmy http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17074 Jimmy Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:34:10 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17074 If you don't have a clear vision, any "program" or "stuff you do" is pointless. Where are you going, why are you going there and what is the end result. Without those questions answered, the "Program" or "stuff you do" is pointless. If you don’t have a clear vision, any “program” or “stuff you do” is pointless. Where are you going, why are you going there and what is the end result. Without those questions answered, the “Program” or “stuff you do” is pointless.

]]> By: Sean http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17073 Sean Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:41:36 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17073 Great point, Scott. Who convinced us there's something wrong with consistency and stability? The number of kids who are in consistent and stable families is so low - maybe our programs are providing the framework for consistent and stable relationships to develop . . . wait, isn't that what most of y'all are saying? :-) And man do I LOVE the "envelope challenge" from morethandodgeball.com. I've been looking for a personal, advent activity, and this is perfect. Great point, Scott. Who convinced us there’s something wrong with consistency and stability? The number of kids who are in consistent and stable families is so low – maybe our programs are providing the framework for consistent and stable relationships to develop . . . wait, isn’t that what most of y’all are saying? :-)

And man do I LOVE the “envelope challenge” from morethandodgeball.com. I’ve been looking for a personal, advent activity, and this is perfect.

]]> By: Scott Volltrauer http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17072 Scott Volltrauer Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:00:52 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17072 Our teens need and value continuity. Sooooo many of them have little sustainable routine at home that is meaningful that they value that at TreeHouse they now that we have substance, variety, creativity and fun in the familiar program format. Our teens need and value continuity. Sooooo many of them have little sustainable routine at home that is meaningful that they value that at TreeHouse they now that we have substance, variety, creativity and fun in the familiar program format.

]]> By: Chris Harkins http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17071 Chris Harkins Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:14:46 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17071 I think the word has gotten a bad rap. I still think of them as programs, but the culture are our church does not like to use that word. To many programs seem shallow. Personally, it doesn't really matter what you call them, someone will have a issue with the terminology. I like our "programs/events/activities/etc." The content and gauging who they are for is more important than what you call them. Just my thoughts... I think the word has gotten a bad rap. I still think of them as programs, but the culture are our church does not like to use that word. To many programs seem shallow. Personally, it doesn’t really matter what you call them, someone will have a issue with the terminology. I like our “programs/events/activities/etc.” The content and gauging who they are for is more important than what you call them. Just my thoughts…

]]> By: Dave http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17070 Dave Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:51:12 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17070 I think the "argument against programs" may often be the way of trying to safely/non-confrontationally express frustration with those expectations from others (boss/parents/elders). Trying to balance 'what do I risk', where is the line I don't cross, how much can I let go of for tradition to pursue where God is beckoning me to lead? Striving to find that good fit in the place you are serving - where communication and respect/support/honest feedback/prayer and doing something together with a common purpose can be difficult to find but can be the most critical piece of the puzzle. Good stuff..... I think the “argument against programs” may often be the way of trying to safely/non-confrontationally express frustration with those expectations from others (boss/parents/elders). Trying to balance ‘what do I risk’, where is the line I don’t cross, how much can I let go of for tradition to pursue where God is beckoning me to lead? Striving to find that good fit in the place you are serving – where communication and respect/support/honest feedback/prayer and doing something together with a common purpose can be difficult to find but can be the most critical piece of the puzzle. Good stuff…..

]]> By: Kurt http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17069 Kurt Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:29:21 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17069 Good thoughts. Sadly, I don't think too many youth workers truly want their programs to be an "end" but would prefer them to be the means to an end, but feel pressure by church leaders for numbers, results etc. which then force the focus and the measurement of success to fall on the wrong part of ministry. I love programs (the stuff we do), and we have big, small, intimate, not-so-intimate, organic and organized programs....all of which are really only a way to connect students with each other, with a caring adult and with their creator. Question: Sean suggested that we may be arguing against a straw man...an issue that really doesn't exist. Is that fair? On the one hand I would agree: Certainly the # of youth workers doing stuff "just to do it" is a minority, but I have to think that part of the stuff many do is to appease the expectations of others which then may fall into the "just to do it" category because it doesn't have a significant strategy other than pleasing the boss/parents/elders? Good thoughts. Sadly, I don’t think too many youth workers truly want their programs to be an “end” but would prefer them to be the means to an end, but feel pressure by church leaders for numbers, results etc. which then force the focus and the measurement of success to fall on the wrong part of ministry. I love programs (the stuff we do), and we have big, small, intimate, not-so-intimate, organic and organized programs….all of which are really only a way to connect students with each other, with a caring adult and with their creator.

Question: Sean suggested that we may be arguing against a straw man…an issue that really doesn’t exist. Is that fair? On the one hand I would agree: Certainly the # of youth workers doing stuff “just to do it” is a minority, but I have to think that part of the stuff many do is to appease the expectations of others which then may fall into the “just to do it” category because it doesn’t have a significant strategy other than pleasing the boss/parents/elders?

]]> By: Tim http://www.simplykurt.com/youth-ministry-leadership/the-program-problem/#comment-17068 Tim Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:08:02 +0000 http://www.simplykurt.com/?p=1007#comment-17068 i agree with program=stuff you do. I always laugh at youth speakers' phobia of the word "program". We get it...it's not about the program it's about the teens. Programs are still needed since teens don't just magically all get together and we instantly have deep relationships with them. i agree with program=stuff you do. I always laugh at youth speakers’ phobia of the word “program”. We get it…it’s not about the program it’s about the teens. Programs are still needed since teens don’t just magically all get together and we instantly have deep relationships with them.

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